(Selections from a discussion thread at ENWorld. The full discussion thread can be found here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56402):
DCOLLINS:
Sean, while we've got your ear here I'd like to say this (watch out, this has caused countless flame fests in the rules forum)...If this rule does get changed at some point I sincerely hope that rules are included to answer the question of "how does market price change when Caster Level is altered?" The rules currently answer that question very succinctly for potions/scrolls/wands, but not for the other types of items which DMG p. 178 says have fixed caster levels.
I know you're not on the R&D team, but it does seem to be an issue.
SEANKREYNOLDS:
Whether or not they'll ever officially do so, I dunno. But I do mention it in my Guidelines For Magic Item Creation article, found here:http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/magicitemcreation.htm
DCOLLINS:
I'm afraid I don't see this specifically mentioned in your arcticle, it would be much appreciated if perhaps you could point it out for me?For example, what I've never found an answer to:
- What is the market price of a 1st-level pearl of power made at caster level 3 (instead of 17)?
Or additionally:
- What is the market price of vestments of faith made at caster level 7 (instead of 20)?
- Is there any increase in market price to a +1 flaming sword made at caster level 20 (instead of 10)?
- What is the market price of a minor circlet of blasting at caster level 10 (instead of 6), or a major circlet of blasting at caster level 10 (instead of 17)?
Things like that -- official items in the rules that apparently have variable caster level.
SEANKREYNOLDS:
{I'm afraid I don't see this specifically mentioned in your arcticle, it would be much appreciated if perhaps you could point it out for me?}Scroll down to the section called "Effectiveness of Caster Level." It talks about why you would ever price a constant-effect item of endure elements at above CL 1.
{For example, what I've never found an answer to:- What is the market price of a 1st-level pearl of power made at caster level 3 (instead of 17)?}
Marginally greater, since for this item the only effect is a slightly better chance at resisting a dispel magic.
{- What is the market price of vestments of faith made at caster level 7 (instead of 20)?}
Probably not much less (though I'd be inclined to argue that this "holy garment" probably has its cost based on the clerical version of stoneskin rather than the arcane version). As with the pearl, the resistance do dispel magic is of only marginal value.
{- Is there any increase in market price to a +1 flaming sword made at caster level 20 (instead of 10)?}
Ditto.
{- What is the market price of a minor circlet of blasting at caster level 10 (instead of 6), }
Since the CL has a direct effect on the item's power (the damage is as per searing light, which has CL-based scaling damage), it would increase as per the formula.
{or a major circlet of blasting at caster level 10 (instead of 17)?}
Well, you can't do it at CL 10 since a maximized searing light is a 6th-level slot, requiring CL 11, but otherwise as the minor form of the item.
CONAILL:
I assume you mean marginally less, right? I.e. the CL3 PoP costs marginally less than the CL 17 one.I like the reasoning in your article, but it still lacks concrete guidelines for changing the CL of the *primary* function of an item.
How's this for an extrapolation from your CL1 Endure Elements example... A Pearl of Power at CL 17 provides little additional benefit over one created at CL 3, so the standard CL 17 item in the DMG could be assumed to be priced as a CL 4 one (1 level above its minimum caster level). So a CL 3 version would be... 3/4 the price?
Seems reasonable, but there's quite a series of assumptions between your article and the final price I came up with. And at 3/4 the price, pretty soon the campaign world will be populated with CL3 Pearls of Power, instead of the assumed CL17 ones. Probably made in Hong Kong or somesuch.
DCOLLINS:
Sean, thanks so much for your comments. I'm hoping you can see why I consider this to be an issue -- the variable caster level allowance to "official" items seems to involve a lot of subjective DM evaluations to the price. It seems like if the rule is changed, those modifications need to be codified if they indeed count as "official items" (as opposed to "new items").Good point [about the major circlet of blasting not being possible at Caster Level 10], I totally missed that the major version was maximized.
However, should the price for the major version follow the formula for the scale from 17 down to 11 (since that doesn't actually alter the damage)? Should the minor version stop scaling price up after caster level 10 (since it no longer increases damage from that point)?
(Degenerate example of strictly following the formula for both:
Minor circlet of blasting @ CL 15, price 6480 / 6 * 15 = 16,200.
Major circlet of blasting @ CL 11, price 23,760 / 17 * 11 = 15,374.
Both do 5d8 damage, but the maximized one winds up actually less expensive.)
It seems like these choices get fairly complicated, and aren't currently dealt in the rulebooks. Thanks again for commenting.
(End of discussion thread.)
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